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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 29/07/2004 05:08:19
I mainly ask this since I seem to spend far too much time in one so it is of some personal concern and partly since I am not sure I have ever seen a thread talking about them (although quite possible I missed it).
Yes, haulers are the dull and boring ships of EVE. However, despite their dullness they are a class of ship we all use at some point or another. Hauling 7 mil of trit 12j to where you want to build a new battleship is a pain in a hauler. In any other ship the attempt doesn't really bear thinking about.
I am writing this thread asking for honest opinions. I am of two minds on them and having trouble reconciling a good middle ground that makes EVE better overall.
1) On the one hand haulers are stunningly easy to gank. Yes, a good hauler can get away if lucky/prepared/gankers are asleep and the hauler has instajumps. Mostly they just die when a competent person in an Ibis or better goes after one (only kinda kidding about the Ibis).
2) On the other hand haulers should be stunningly easy to gank. I mean, they are space trucks afterall. They aren't supposed to be armored like a battleship or as nimble as a frigate.
Is there any way to lessen the gap between these two extremes that makes sense?
For instance, many here on the forums agitate for the removal of instajumps and CCP seems to be mulling the idea over. What little chance haulers have of getting by trouble today exists solely in the use of instajumps and even then haulers are nowhere near untouchable (as I've learned the hard way).
To be clear I am not suggesting unstoppable haulers either but therein lies the dilemma. How do you make them have some chance via skill and ship stats to get a cargo through while still being reasonably stoppable by pirates/enemies?
Note this is not some carebear whine but face it...as it stands only the terminally stupid move anything highly valuable in a hauler (I know...some still do but on the whole most know better). There was a thread not too long ago where some pirate stopped ganking a Tempest he had near dead to switch to shooting a hauler that showed up. Tempest got away because he switched to the hauler. Lesson to be had here is most everyone loves shooting haulers first and foremost. On Chaos awhile back some people tested running haulers (without instajumps) through a gate camp. Number of haulers that made the gate? Zero (despite all sorts of escort tactics).
The more survivable a hauler is the more likely they will bother carrying more valuable cargo in places they might get ganked. So, carebears feel better at getting the hauler through in one piece and pirates/enemies have a better chance at more valuable loot.
Any ideas? Is there a better balance to be had or is it as good as it will get with haulers?
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 29/07/2004 05:08:19
I mainly ask this since I seem to spend far too much time in one so it is of some personal concern and partly since I am not sure I have ever seen a thread talking about them (although quite possible I missed it).
Yes, haulers are the dull and boring ships of EVE. However, despite their dullness they are a class of ship we all use at some point or another. Hauling 7 mil of trit 12j to where you want to build a new battleship is a pain in a hauler. In any other ship the attempt doesn't really bear thinking about.
I am writing this thread asking for honest opinions. I am of two minds on them and having trouble reconciling a good middle ground that makes EVE better overall.
1) On the one hand haulers are stunningly easy to gank. Yes, a good hauler can get away if lucky/prepared/gankers are asleep and the hauler has instajumps. Mostly they just die when a competent person in an Ibis or better goes after one (only kinda kidding about the Ibis).
2) On the other hand haulers should be stunningly easy to gank. I mean, they are space trucks afterall. They aren't supposed to be armored like a battleship or as nimble as a frigate.
Is there any way to lessen the gap between these two extremes that makes sense?
For instance, many here on the forums agitate for the removal of instajumps and CCP seems to be mulling the idea over. What little chance haulers have of getting by trouble today exists solely in the use of instajumps and even then haulers are nowhere near untouchable (as I've learned the hard way).
To be clear I am not suggesting unstoppable haulers either but therein lies the dilemma. How do you make them have some chance via skill and ship stats to get a cargo through while still being reasonably stoppable by pirates/enemies?
Note this is not some carebear whine but face it...as it stands only the terminally stupid move anything highly valuable in a hauler (I know...some still do but on the whole most know better). There was a thread not too long ago where some pirate stopped ganking a Tempest he had near dead to switch to shooting a hauler that showed up. Tempest got away because he switched to the hauler. Lesson to be had here is most everyone loves shooting haulers first and foremost. On Chaos awhile back some people tested running haulers (without instajumps) through a gate camp. Number of haulers that made the gate? Zero (despite all sorts of escort tactics).
The more survivable a hauler is the more likely they will bother carrying more valuable cargo in places they might get ganked. So, carebears feel better at getting the hauler through in one piece and pirates/enemies have a better chance at more valuable loot.
Any ideas? Is there a better balance to be had or is it as good as it will get with haulers?
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:09:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Cruz
Haulers should be nerfed so that they can only carry megacyte and zydrine and so that nothign else can carry megacyte/zydrine  
hehe
I have seen a few threads recently where some lucky pirate came across a hauler with tens of thousands of units of Mega/Zyd aboard. Must be like pirates of old coming across the Spanish gold ships.
General opinoin though is anyone stupid enough to move Mega/Zyd in a hauler pretty much deserves to get ganked and I tend to agree as things stand now.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 05:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cruz
Haulers should be nerfed so that they can only carry megacyte and zydrine and so that nothign else can carry megacyte/zydrine
hehe
I have seen a few threads recently where some lucky pirate came across a hauler with tens of thousands of units of Mega/Zyd aboard. Must be like pirates of old coming across the Spanish gold ships.
General opinoin though is anyone stupid enough to move Mega/Zyd in a hauler pretty much deserves to get ganked and I tend to agree as things stand now.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 07:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: juduzz
Want more protection TBH then the pilot should take an escort.
Want more speed change exspanders for speed mods and AB's.
Escorts are close to worthless for a hauler. Most anything can gank the hauler in a few shots and then probably still be able to run away from your escort (or fight them or whatever).
Scouts can be useful inasmuch as they can tell the hauler to run.
I don't mind that they are slow (ok...don't like it but understandable and what I would expect so no issues there).
Hmmm...maybe an escort feature unique to haulers. If the hauler gangs other ships the hauler gains a noticeable shield bonus and/or speed boost and/or cap charge boost. Effectively this takes the place of mods but makes it so your friends don't have to target you and engage mods by which time the hauler may well be dead anyway.
The downside should be the ships the hauler gangs drop their max speed to the hauler's speed. All ships in gang warp at 3 AU/s. Perhaps the escorts lose 10% (or whatever) of their shields that they are "giving" to the hauler.
This would leave solo haulers the way they are which is the bulk of hauling anyway but open possibilities for escorts to help. You might even see escorts for higher since they would actually be useful.
Just thinking out loud.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 07:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: juduzz
Want more protection TBH then the pilot should take an escort.
Want more speed change exspanders for speed mods and AB's.
Escorts are close to worthless for a hauler. Most anything can gank the hauler in a few shots and then probably still be able to run away from your escort (or fight them or whatever).
Scouts can be useful inasmuch as they can tell the hauler to run.
I don't mind that they are slow (ok...don't like it but understandable and what I would expect so no issues there).
Hmmm...maybe an escort feature unique to haulers. If the hauler gangs other ships the hauler gains a noticeable shield bonus and/or speed boost and/or cap charge boost. Effectively this takes the place of mods but makes it so your friends don't have to target you and engage mods by which time the hauler may well be dead anyway.
The downside should be the ships the hauler gangs drop their max speed to the hauler's speed. All ships in gang warp at 3 AU/s. Perhaps the escorts lose 10% (or whatever) of their shields that they are "giving" to the hauler.
This would leave solo haulers the way they are which is the bulk of hauling anyway but open possibilities for escorts to help. You might even see escorts for higher since they would actually be useful.
Just thinking out loud.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 14:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Maric
Downside of this fitting is large consumation of cap  . After a few days I change back my Mammoth to nanofibers and AB. Why? Often I have to jump 10+. It is dull to stay just to click AB or MWD when warp out, therefore I propose some new speed mod med slot modules or modifing existig one from low to med slots (forgot name, it have cargo penalty).
Just put cap rechargers in your med slots and you are good to go with an MWD on a Mammoth/Mk-V. This assumes of course you don't need the med slots for defensive modules but then if you did you probably shouldn't be fitting for an MWD anyway (stabs in low instead of all those RCUs).
I've been meaning to see if RCU-IIs allow indies below a Mammoth/Mk-V to fit MWDs. Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
As for those who think other indies should be buffed to come closer to equaling a Mk-V I say no way. In fact, if anything I think the Mk-V should be even better than it is to reflect its training needs. It takes 30 days to train the thing...it ought to have noticeably better stats and as it is the Mammoth isn't too far off for a fraction of the training time.
There are some neat ideas here to make indies more useful. A heavily armored indie would be great as an option. For balance it would give up cargo/speed.
Another thing I think would be fun would be an EVE version of the AC-130H/U Spectre Gunship. Basically a cargo carrier that has given up its cargo to carry extremely heavy firepower. In EVE such a ship would be an industrial based ship (i.e. slow, low shields/armor) but would sport many guns. Be fun to lure in ganking frigs only for them to learn the hard way that this particular hauler has teeth.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.07.29 14:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Maric
Downside of this fitting is large consumation of cap . After a few days I change back my Mammoth to nanofibers and AB. Why? Often I have to jump 10+. It is dull to stay just to click AB or MWD when warp out, therefore I propose some new speed mod med slot modules or modifing existig one from low to med slots (forgot name, it have cargo penalty).
Just put cap rechargers in your med slots and you are good to go with an MWD on a Mammoth/Mk-V. This assumes of course you don't need the med slots for defensive modules but then if you did you probably shouldn't be fitting for an MWD anyway (stabs in low instead of all those RCUs).
I've been meaning to see if RCU-IIs allow indies below a Mammoth/Mk-V to fit MWDs. Anyone know if with RCU-IIs you can squeeze an MWD on a Mk-IV or Bestower?
As for those who think other indies should be buffed to come closer to equaling a Mk-V I say no way. In fact, if anything I think the Mk-V should be even better than it is to reflect its training needs. It takes 30 days to train the thing...it ought to have noticeably better stats and as it is the Mammoth isn't too far off for a fraction of the training time.
There are some neat ideas here to make indies more useful. A heavily armored indie would be great as an option. For balance it would give up cargo/speed.
Another thing I think would be fun would be an EVE version of the AC-130H/U Spectre Gunship. Basically a cargo carrier that has given up its cargo to carry extremely heavy firepower. In EVE such a ship would be an industrial based ship (i.e. slow, low shields/armor) but would sport many guns. Be fun to lure in ganking frigs only for them to learn the hard way that this particular hauler has teeth.
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